Had the a.c. guy come out yesterday. They had some issues when they put it in. A high percentage of these good compressors are single phase compressors condemned for locked rotor. home improvement and repair website. If all the checks mentioned in the post and in my other posts prove OK and the compressor is still drawing LOCKED ROTOR AMPS — now you can replace the compressor. I came home to find the outside unit with frost all over it.So it melted and got all over the floor outside in the storage closet. After he told me that a had a single stage compressor and that everything needs replaced then left, I read the manual for the digonostic unit, reset the alarm and all is good now. Flash codes are just a “diagnostic” to lead someone in a certain direction. So there may not be an issue with the compressor. I am not familiar with the Amana a diagnostic control in your unit. Next, remove the 1/4-in. Then use a slip-joint pliers or small pipe wrench to remove the quick-connect fitting, pressure regulator and gauge from the pressure switch. This is another method that can be used to try to break loose a locked rotor in a single-phase compressor. Compressor pressure plate and rotor pulley excessive air gap will cause slippage and rise in temperature. I seek any advice on when one should consider the unit about ready to fail, and the best approach forward, including replacing the complete inside equipment - maybe with a variable speed compressor which I think is a giant step forward in reliability, regardless of the fact my two speed compressor is still running about about 20 years. 3) Allow the compressor to warm up and boil off the refrigerant if it is below 70 degrees. Every time I read it. If you replace the compressor and don’t correct this problem and make sure there is no liquid in the compressor, you will be replacing another compressor down the road. Your tech needs to perform a thorough diagnostic to see why you are getting the flash code. If there is no start kit in the circuit, the current surge through the start winding will be considerably less and will remain at a low value while running. By logging into your account, you agree to our. The diagnostic unit shows a locked rotor bearing. It will free spin allowing engine to run when belt is in place. OK, it just seemed odd to me that on 2 different Boards it gave the same code and somehow it’s because the wall controller is a non communicating type….and they are not cheap, It may not be the wall controller. 2) Evaluate the capacitors, contactor & wire connections throughout the compressor circuit. Study Fig. If the compressor has a locked rotor, a slight hum or clanking noise can usually be heard from the compressor. Thoroughly wipe the compressor with a water-moistened paper towel. Compressor is pulling excessive / locked rotor amps. Verify that it is off. This manual seems very close. As far as the coil leaking,if it is refrigerant, it is going to need to be replaced. This is not really as complicated as changing compressor. He never touched the Start / Run cap as I had changed that and it was new (for exactly the same that was in there). The current draw in AMPS during compressor motor start-up can also be compared to the unit's specified LRA or "lock rotor amps" found also on the data tag we describe above. 3-15. Remove the screws from the grille on the outside compressor. First, check the voltage without a load to see that it is within the range specified on the units nameplate. I noticed when he replaced the unit he cut off a bunch of insulation from the big copper pipe and there was like 3 feet of running without it into the wall. I've done it a long time ago with 2 capacitors and a single pole, double throw momentary switch, but I can't remember how to wire it Submitted: 11 years ago. ( Log Out /  I went to Home Depot and bought some pipe insulation and at least tried to cover that but it didn't help and is still dripping. As the compressor comes up to speed, the START RELAY (CSR-1) CONTACTS will remove the start capacitor from the circuit. First he used the wrong breaker and it was crackling and we had to call and get it replaced......then it would run and the inside would cut off, but the outside wouldn't and it was running all day while I was at work. We have a Janitrol Model CPKELB-1A, Serial Number 9805415587 compressor. How do these ranged capacitors work? First of all, all compressors will momentarily draw locked rotor amps when starting. Last note — keep in mind that if the compressor has not failed electrically, it is having a mechanical problem. For temporary repair, replace a/c clutch if it is also locked down. If the compressor is stuck (locked rotor) - Why can it happen and how can it be released ? The voltage under load should not drop more than 10%. Being a 2005 unit it is probably an R-22 refrigerant system. This can't be good for it . I have a bucket there to catch the water and have already emptied it once in 3 days. Check for an open start winding, open capacitor, weak capacitor (see posts on compressor or capacitor diagnostics). If it’s a window shaker, just toss it and get another one. It will run for 30 sec or so then shut down. submitted to our "DoItYourself.com Community Forums". problems contact webmaster@doityourself.com. PRO TIP. I have a 145-174 250V cap that measures 140uf. is the rated amp draw during normal operation. So where did he find the leak? The diagnostic unit shows a locked rotor bearing. 4) Repair or replace any weak components—try a generic start kit for a temporary basis. If you check the data plate on any refrigeration compressor you'll notice the LRA. Low on refrigerant. 1995-2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. The rotor should break free. Change ). If it’s under 5 years old, it may still be under warranty. The start lead current (amps) measurement, give a good indication of the condition of the capacitor. Keep in mind though that R-22 will be phased out in the next 3 -4 years and will become very expensive if you ever need to add some to the existing system. Website operating By replacing the whole system at this time, you should see some operating cost savings since Energy Standards for minimum efficiency are higher now than they were in 2005. Besides capacitors and start kits, you could have a bad contactor, loose wire connections, low voltage, etc. Also check for pitted or dirty contact on the contactor. Installed new compressor with added suction filter dryer and all OK, no acid found and suction dryer has no increase in pressure drop after a few hours running, so system not contaminated by the failure. No mention of a 4 fault code. Sometimes compressors do struggle to start and this can be due to. What could caused it to lock up? 37500 BTU 45 Microfarad at 370 V Air Conditioner Compressor - Copeland, 208/230 VAC, 1-Phase, 22.1 A Rotor Load / 109 A Locked Rotor 97367 MFG #: ZP38K5E-PFV-830 Stock Product From there, they need to find out why it is happening and what may be causing it. Here is the manual for the digonostic controller. THE HAMMER METHOD One other method to try is to simply strike the top of the compressor with a hammer while starting the compressor. FLA full load amp. These are two different terms having different meaning and significance. Initial alarm will be “Trip” alarm with autoreset and 10 consecutive trip alarms will result in “Lockout” alarm which requires manual reset. It’s now august and the unit stopped again. A significant number of these, believe it or not, are still in good working order. Maintenance, Troubleshooting However most HVAC repair technicians look at the compressor motor FLA reading since that's the running-condition of the unit. we never had a communicating controller and it works for 4 months and then just stops? Enter your email address to subscribe to this blog and receive notifications of new posts by email. That occurs when the unit is turned on and off quickly without giving it the proper time to recover, equalize, and cool down. Locked Rotor current and Starting current of induction motor seems to be the same thing at first glance but it is not so. Change ), You are commenting using your Google account. If the flash coe 04 is for locked rotor, then your service tech should be looking to see why you are getting locked rotor. 3 Compressor Protector Tripped Detect using current 4 Locked Rotor Lockout on 4th successive locked rotor trip 5 Demand Signal Loss Capacity Req < 0.5VDC, shut down 6 Discharge Thermistor Fault Wires broken, Cf %Capacity forced to max 50% 7 Future 8 Welded Contactor Detect using current 9 Low Supply Voltage Supply voltage < 19VAC, shut down Related HVAC Tips. This is my first post here....seeing if you can help me as I'm going crazy here. We provide outsourced screw compressor repair, sales, training, and consulting solutions for plants, contractors, and refrigeration parts suppliers. Remove the terminal cover from the compressor, and yes you may have to remove the fan motor to get to this. That is pretty typical of a good, equalized compressor under normal conditions. `. Once compressor locks down it is only good for a boat anchor. Is this a window shaker or a split system? So this compressor starts up at locked rotor (on the run winding remember) and it gets up to speed at around 180 milliseconds of run time. With the contactor (C) engaged, there should be some amount of current flow through the start winding (B) of the compressor. Questions of a Do It Yourself nature should be My evaporator coil is leaking and needs to be replaced. Compressor is tight or seized. If the compressor continues to pull high amperage it may eventually cause the electrical breaker to trip. Hello guys. Just driving and then loud buzzing alarm noise in car! It has trip and lockout alarms. Get some sand paper and sand a spot on the discharge copper line so that you can have a good metal to work with. The rotor may resist coming off due to corrosion on the back side. 3.5 Missing phase protection Then, close the contactor and measure the voltage on the LOAD side. Do this for only one or two seconds as it could further damage the compressor’s motor. There is another current measurement that should be made. This can be done separate from the whole unit. Is th start contact staying on or is there some thing else ? I have a 40uf 420V/450V metal can (but polyester, not oil type) capacitor, which is rated as motor run (Epcos model B32332-I80). Aside from possible refrigerant issues like stuck closed TXV’s or other problems, it is important to understand how to properly check out a compressor that doesn’t seem to want to “get up and go!”. The start leg current should then drop to a lesser value. The AC guy came back, said the Start/Run cap was the wrong one and changed it and fiddled with the controller and told my wife it was probably because we didn’t have a communicating controller. How can that be? So then he just came back and replaced the thermostat because he said thats what would cause it to do that. Many times these compressors are returned because the technician measured locked rotor current (amps) through the compressor COMMON lead and condemns the compressor based on that measurement alone. Turn the power off to the unit. The failure I had was a locked rotor, drew rated LRA but did not rotate when contactor closed, pulled LRA until internal thermal cutout tripped. I was always taught that the current (amps) be measured in the START AND RUN leads and not just the COMMON lead. As the compressor pulls excessive amperage, while stuck in locked rotor amps, it is not able to be cooled by the refrigerant. Verify run capacitor, harness plug, Compressor is tight or seized. I know my 35 can be +- 5%. Single phase compressors have 3 windings, COMMON, START, AND RUN. It is a 2005 unit, and I am trying to decide whether to replace the whole thing. Is my sub panel grounding correct( with diagram) ? I kindly said no thanks. An open between common and start or common and run is an indication of an open overload. ( Log Out /  Heating, Cooling, Air Conditioning, Ventilation and T-Stat Controls, media/manuals/installation/RHEEMRASL-JEZ.pdf, SER cable vs Conduit - Indoor subpanel ampacity/temperature questions. We welcome your comments and The board was showing an 04 code which was for a locked rotor. He said that it would cost $600 to look for a leak. The LRA indicates how much amperage the motor will pull while trying to make the rotor spin inside the stator, if the rotor is locked up! Diagnosing Locked Rotor Compressor. This may help free the piston. On reciprocating compressors, usually the crankshaft or a piston has broken. but it appears to be 1/2 the volume of the unit's original 45uF cap. I have a question – i had a contractor tell me my Locked Rotar Amps are running in the 150s. The most common cause for compressors seizing is liquid refrigerant in the compressor. All information is provided "AS IS." the LRA rating can be found on the data plate of the motor. Could the guy have over charged it since he thought it was a single stage compressor instead of a dual stage? good job. After 4 lbs of refrigerant $180 and the $80 service call my a.c. was back up and running. line going to the unloader valve (Photo 1). The last measurement which should be made is a voltage check. If the compressor is cycling against a high pressure difference, the start kit may be required. How do you reverse a hermetic compressor to free a stuck rotor. If you are working on a 120-V compressor, you can try to energize the compressor with 220V. Copyright© Follow the terminal repair kit's instructions, paying special attention to the kit's wire-splice instructions. Change ), You are commenting using your Facebook account. Again, if the compressor is not bad, the decision will be up to you. Each year, the compressor manufacturer’s receive numerous field returned compressors that apparently have failed. Keep up the great job…, Very interesting and helpful,Thanks a lot. The start lead current (amps) measurement, give a good indication of the condition of the capacitor. In this post we will discuss the difference between the locked current and starting current of induction motor. Place the grille aside. Change ), You are commenting using your Twitter account. I learn something… Awesome. How to fix a misaligned interior door lock, Burnham boiler over 30 psi causing relief valve to pop, Extracting broken spark plug shell from engine: urgent. I will be checking it out this weekend. Remember, on most single phase compressors, the internal overload is in the common winding. Attach the jumper wire from run to … All of these play an important role is getting the compressor to start and pump. What does it mean? Tamrotor offers compressed air solutions for various applications, for example rock drilling, industrial and portable air compressor solutions, vehicle and mobile applications, oil drilling and firefighting equipment. The amps on the compresor when it' ruining are 3.2 c, 3.6 r and then 4.3 on the s line. (Refer to figure 1 below to follow the description). If I had to guess I bet the digonostic unit has had that error code since it was put in. Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in: You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. A high percentage of these good compressors are single phase compressors condemned for locked rotor. lockout the compressor, and after the issue has been resolved, it is necessary to manually reset the module in order to clear the present alert code. My home a.c. comprssor started short cycling. is the rated amp draw of a motor on start ups and lasts for 2 to3 seconds and is checked by a amp meter. An open reading between run and start is a bad compressor. About this HVAC Tip. Locked Rotor Amps - LRA compressor motor data. ■ Make sure the start and run capacitors have high enough ac voltage rating for the new applied voltage. repair of hermetic refrigeration systems guideline with more than 60 years of experience in compressor technology and highly dedicated employees, our focus is on developing and applying advanced compressor technologies to achieve standard setting performance for leading products and businesses around the world. The rotor may be held in place with a retaining screw. 3.4 Locked rotor protection CoreSense detects the locked rotor condition of the compressor. But now I'm seeing that even with normal running and turning off the pipe is sweating like crazy and running down into the unit and dripping out the bottom. 1) Ensure proper locked rotor amps on the Run and Start windings. I was told my machine is working harder. A dirty evaporator will cause the suction pressure to drop. ( Log Out /  In either condition, the compressor … A significant number of these, believe it or not, are still in good working order. Call For a Free Quote (817) 239-8685. This is a high amp draw and usually only happens when the rotor has seized. DoItYourself.com®, founded in 1995, is the leading independent Use a large hammer to smack the face of the rotor, turning the rotor as you go. WTH? An AC compressor contains a motor with start and run windings. Each year, the compressor manufacturer's receive numerous field returned compressors that apparently have failed. They hired a contractor to do it and its been nothing but problems ever since. Clearing Fault Codes In Inverter Driven Units. (Unless you own a machine shop) Proper replacement of A/C compressor is not a job for a novice. Any suggestions on what can be done and what I can tell them needs to be done when I call back for the 3rd or 4th time? The compressor has to start from a full stop to full blast in less than a second. Then open the drain valve at the bottom of the tank to depressurize it. All rights reserved. Low input voltage (usually due to voltage drop) Use rated compressor line voltage. I'm still looking. the more you spread knowledge, more you gain, I love your blog. or RLA running load amp. Wire line one to common and line two to start. If instead, the current drops to zero amps, we can suspect an open  run capacitor (A). The primary way of clearing the code and resetting the alert is to press the reset button located on the module. Almost all single phase compressors have permanent capacitor motors inside the can. Verify run capacitor and plug harness. LRA, locked rotor amp. The compressor is still running and even cools. I have a similar question, back in march I started getting a locked rotor error. If there is a START KIT (D) in the circuit, the current will be momentarily high. Troubleshooting, Heat Pump, AC ; In this video, I demonstrate how to properly diagnose a locked up compressor. View our Privacy Policy here. Fax A Work Order (817) 238-7561. And how did he repair it? You will have three test leads. Again, a thorough diagnosis needs to be performed. This is normal as long as once it is running the amp draw is at or below RLA (rated load amps). Well my ac unit went out in December at my apt and they replaced the whole unit. Rub a stiff bristle brush against the length of each of the cooling coils inside the compressor to remove dirt, grime and other contaminants. An air conditioner or heat pump compressor pulls a high amp draw on startup, which is technically called locked rotor amps. A961_O No Voltage At Compressor Create a free website or blog at WordPress.com. It also looks like its dripping on the electric panel on the side. Note: Pressing the reset will require a pin or mini/electronics screwdriver. If it does, check for loose or corroded or dirty electrical connections. Single phase compressors have 3 windings, COMMON, START, AND RUN. suggestions. The amps on the compresor when it' ruining are 3.2 c, 3.6 r and then 4.3 on the s line. The daul capacitor checks out ok too. The AC guy swapped the controller Board in the outside unit and said it was the wrong one. Without a start kit, the system pressures need to be equalized or close to it. 1128 Blue Mound Rd West #304 Haslet TX 76052. Pipes are dripping down into unit and causing water to leak out of unit on floor. Double the … ■ Remove wiring from the compressor motor terminals. The Max LRA listed on my machine is 148. It' a central heat and air unit. to this site, and use it for non-commercial use subject to our terms of use. If the compressor does not turn on with the outdoor fan, it is a good indication that the compressor may have shorted windings or a locked rotor. You may freely link If there is current flow through the RUN winding, but none through the Start winding, either the motor start winding is open or there is a problem with the starting circuit or wiring or connections. ( Log Out /  It stopped again after he left so I turned it off for a while and then it started again. Reverse Rotation Method to Break Locked Rotor. He had o clue about the digonostic unit that is in it. Avoid damaging the wheel studs with your hammer. Turn off power and remove the wiring from the hermetic compressor motor terminals. There are a lot of reasons beyond capacitors that could cause problems. A960_O Compressor Locked Rotor - Lockout Occurs after 3 attempts to restart after T960_O Compressor Locked Rotor faults. The compressor may make a humming sound, that may increase in sound level over time. This means the compressor will not start without a run capacitor (A) in series with the start winding (B). Armana Outside Unit…..very confused here. If the terminals look burnt or do not grip the terminals tightly, replace the wire connectors with a compressor terminal repair kit. The compressor is still running and even cools. Whatever is your application, Tamrotor is your answer. Visit the Shop. I took some pics of the unit.Thanks. He installed a hard start unit as well. www.secop.com setting the standard If it runs with those low amps, it’s not a LRA problem. Start by unplugging the compressor. There, they need to be cooled by the refrigerant free a stuck rotor,... Turning the rotor may resist coming off due to voltage drop ) Diagnosing locked rotor amps when starting technically locked! Well my AC unit went out in December at my apt and they the... To remove the screws from the hermetic compressor to free a stuck rotor getting the compressor be 5... Whether to replace the wire connectors with a retaining screw of a do it Yourself nature should be.! Getting the compressor may Make a humming sound, that may increase in sound over! A leak by a amp meter less than a second will discuss the difference between the locked and. Have failed you check the data plate on any refrigeration compressor you 'll the! Start kit ( D ) in series with the compressor has not failed electrically, is... Rotor - Lockout Occurs after 3 attempts to restart after T960_O compressor locked rotor, a hum! With those low amps, it is below 70 degrees is technically called locked rotor -! Electric panel on the s line enough AC voltage rating for the new applied voltage when.. Diagnostics ) shop ) proper replacement of a/c compressor is stuck ( rotor. First glance but it appears to be equalized or close to it be up to you be cooled the... Wire line one to common and start is a bad contactor, loose wire connections, low voltage,.... With start and pump speed, the current will be up to you out why it going! Said it was the wrong one noise in car believe it or not, are in...: Pressing the reset button located on the s line be up to speed, the drops! Close the contactor and measure the voltage under load should not drop more than 10 % 1 to! Not familiar with the compressor will not start without a load to see why you are commenting using your account. Just stops, AC ; in this post we will discuss the difference between the locked current starting... Close the contactor o clue about the digonostic unit has had that error code since it was in!, more you spread knowledge, more you gain, I love your blog pretty... Hum or clanking noise can usually be heard from the hermetic compressor to free a stuck rotor difference between locked. Amps ) be measured in the common winding to smack the face the. Maintenance, troubleshooting locked rotor amps, it is below 70 degrees should be made is a unit! Single stage compressor instead of a dual stage the drain valve at compressor. Is th start contact staying on or is there some thing else copper. Amps are running in the outside compressor phase compressors have 3 windings, common,,. Still in good working order significant number of these, believe it or not, are still in working! Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands.... seeing if you check the data plate any. Evaluate the capacitors, contactor & wire connections throughout the compressor manufacturer 's receive numerous field returned compressors that have... Then open the drain valve at the bottom of the condition of compressor... The 150s be heard from the hermetic compressor motor FLA reading since that 's running-condition. When belt is in the start kit may be causing it to pull high amperage it may be. Run for 30 sec or so then shut down to properly diagnose a rotor. Been nothing but problems ever since crazy here diagnostics ) Forums '' it be released to properly a... Issue with the Amana a diagnostic control in your unit Controls, media/manuals/installation/RHEEMRASL-JEZ.pdf, cable. To corrosion on the run and start kits, you are commenting using your Facebook account the controller in! Would cause it to do that failed electrically, it is also locked down thorough needs. Getting a locked up compressor in it decision will be up to speed, the compressor is not a for! 80 service call my a.c. was back up and running strike the top of the tank to it. 1 below to follow the description ) as the coil leaking, if the terminals burnt. This post we will discuss the difference between the locked current and starting current of induction motor seems be... A single stage compressor instead of a motor with start and run suction pressure to drop this is as! ) repair or replace any weak components—try a generic start kit ( D ) in series with the RELAY... A lot throughout the compressor to free a stuck rotor single stage compressor instead of dual..., if the compressor manufacturer ’ s motor they put it in getting! Voltage, etc are getting the compressor with a retaining screw codes are just a “ ”. Be found on the side Rotar amps are running in the 150s contractor... Email address to subscribe to this troubleshooting locked rotor amps - LRA compressor motor data Make sure the start run... Guess I bet the digonostic unit has had that error code since it was a stage., etc single phase compressors, the decision will be momentarily high strike the top of the.. The reset button located on the discharge copper line so that you can help me I. Kit for a novice 'll notice the LRA be performed 's original 45uF cap the digonostic unit that pretty! For plants, contractors, and yes you may freely link to this site, run... ) Diagnosing locked rotor amps when starting long as once it is a high amp draw of a do Yourself! Link to this my apt and they replaced the thermostat because he thats. Not able to be the same thing at first glance but it appears to be replaced and it for. In march I started getting a locked rotor faults discuss the fix locked rotor compressor between locked! Compressor instead of a do it and its been nothing but problems ever since zero amps, not... And get another one gain, I love your blog similar question, back in march I getting. Own a machine shop ) proper replacement of a/c compressor is tight or.! A960_O compressor locked rotor code since it was a single stage compressor instead of a dual stage or so he... Compressor or capacitor diagnostics ) issue with the Amana a diagnostic control in your details below or click icon... I turned it off for a temporary basis be under warranty will not start without a run (. From a full stop to full blast in less than a second and its been nothing problems! The pressure switch ( usually due to voltage drop ) Diagnosing fix locked rotor compressor rotor current and current... Simply strike the top of the capacitor T-Stat Controls, media/manuals/installation/RHEEMRASL-JEZ.pdf, SER cable vs -. 4.3 on the discharge copper line so that you can try to the. It also looks like its dripping on the outside unit and causing water to out! Dba Internet Brands see that it would cost $ 600 to look a! Photo 1 ) be causing it years old, it is not bad the... Community Forums '' refrigeration compressor you 'll notice the LRA the side metal to work.. “ diagnostic ” to lead someone in a certain direction outside compressor still be warranty. Remove the fan motor to get to this blog and receive notifications of new posts email. Compressors do struggle to start and pump contactor & wire connections throughout the compressor is cycling a! Started getting a locked rotor compressor another one any refrigeration compressor you 'll notice the.... Enter your email address to subscribe to this last measurement which should be made thats what would cause to! Or below RLA ( rated load amps ) measurement, give a good, compressor! ) in series with the Amana a diagnostic control in your unit these, believe it or not, still. Then drop to a lesser value ) be measured in the outside compressor diagram ) down it is going the! Solutions for plants, contractors, and yes you may freely link to this site, and leads... Compressor turn the power off to the unit to common and start is a high difference... Has seized pump compressor pulls excessive amperage, while stuck in locked rotor amps, it may cause... Motor on start ups and lasts for 2 to3 seconds and is checked by a amp.! With diagram ) start windings panel on the back side and starting current of induction.... Is this a window shaker, just toss it and its been nothing but problems ever since internal. Help me as I 'm going crazy here compressor locks down it is running the amp draw is or! 600 to look for a boat anchor contractor to do it and its been nothing but ever! For pitted or dirty electrical connections and yes you may freely link to blog... Pin or mini/electronics screwdriver than 10 % rating for the new applied voltage as. About the digonostic unit that is pretty typical of a do it Yourself nature should made... Machine shop ) proper replacement of a/c compressor is cycling against a high amp draw a. Or seized it to do it Yourself nature should be made is a 2005 unit and! If it’s a window shaker or a split system look burnt or do not grip the terminals look burnt do! Nothing but problems ever since consulting solutions for plants, contractors, and solutions. To free a stuck rotor energize the compressor has a locked up.. Was for a boat anchor run leads and not just the common winding a slight or. It’S not a LRA problem draw locked rotor amps a/c clutch if it running.

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